Alice Lutyens
Alice Lutyens is currently a Books and Audio agent at Curtis Brown where she sells the audio rights and projects on behalf of the agency's list. Alongside this, Alice also represents a varied and eclectic literary list of her own where she passionately and persistently advocates on behalf of her authors.
Alice completed a few weeks’ work experience at the agency while she was still at university in Edinburgh, then joined Curtis Brown as an assistant and progressed to launch and develop the audio side of their ever-expanding business before becoming a books agent. In the early days of her career, when she thought she would be an assistant for the rest of her life, she applied for other jobs but was rejected because of fears that her deafness would get in the way of her ability to do the job. Despite subsequent approaches from other companies, Alice chose to remain at Curtis Brown, a place where she has always received ‘the utmost respect and kindness’ from colleagues, for fifteen years. In that time, she has developed her skills, progressed in the company and had three children.
'If I wasn’t deaf I do not think I’d be where I am now, because I wanted to prove myself.'
As a deaf person working in audio, what do you feel are the unique challenges that you have faced in your career?
I have an extra hurdle to overcome, because when I meet people they have preconceptions that I will find it hard to communicate or they will have to sign. You have to break down those preconceptions and fears immediately. The older you get, the more tired you get, and lip reading is very tiring. I just can’t catch everything (maybe 50% if I’m lucky) in a big meeting, and I definitely miss important information and nuances. I do wonder if it has held me back – could I be even more successful if I wasn’t deaf? – but the answer is probably not. If I wasn’t deaf I would still want to give my mental energy to my children as well as my work. Having said that, I’m definitely at a disadvantage and I have to work harder to overcome it. The more I progress, the more I become aware of it holding me back. At the beginning I was so intent on telling myself – and everyone else – that I was no different. Now, I am much more confident in my abilities, I can be vulnerable and say it does matter. But if I wasn’t deaf I do not think I’d be where I am, because I wanted to prove myself. I am very proud of that.
'It’s so hard to make that leap from assistant to agent if you don’t carve out your own space, particularly as a woman.'
How did you spot that audio would become an opportunity?
When I took over audio it was just something elderly people rented at the library, so we weren’t proactively selling our rights. I was told I was welcome to develop this area, but in my own time alongside my assistant job. When Audible came along people got more interested, and then BBC Audio went bankrupt, which was a huge turning point because it was an opportunity for us to claim rights back. The contracts said that in termination they could sell the rights they held to anyone, and we knew that couldn’t happen. The authors have to be able to decide where their own rights go. So I scoured the contracts, found a clause, reverted the contracts and we were able to really sell the audio, for our very biggest authors, for big money. The first time my bonus was paid on the strength of the income I generated, not the quality of my work, was such a proud moment for me because it was tangible, a direct result of value I had generated.
Of course I can’t hear, so my love for podcasting doesn’t come from my heart in the way it does for the books side of what I do. If someone wrote down a song and you could read the lyrics, would it move you the same way? Audio is not just about the words. And yet, from an intellectual perspective I find it so engaging and interesting. Plus I’m lucky to have a pair of ears in Sophia, my right hand woman! I’m so happy where I am and the traditional path would have been very hard in the labyrinth of publishing. It’s so hard to make that leap from assistant to agent if you don’t carve out your own space, particularly as a woman. I had moments where I thought I would be an assistant for the rest of my life. On those days you have to go home, have a glass of wine and some excellent chocolate. Text your friends – not your work friends – and the next day go to work and keep going.
'You have to be able to empathise, and I don’t think you can grow that quality out of nothing.'
Once you’ve made that leap, what makes an excellent agent?
All agents think differently. For me, the relationship with the author is the most important. I could never take someone on if I didn’t feel some kind of fellowship with them. It’s been a disaster when I have strayed from that! Negotiation is obviously important, but not as much as empathy. When I’m trying to win an author, I take the time to write a long email; things I like, didn’t like, would change, fell in love with. They don’t have to agree, but they should feel I understand what they are trying to do. So you have to be able to empathise, and I don’t think you can grow that quality out of nothing. I’ve never been good at hugging, but I am very good at talking to people and seeing things from another perspective and I try to be logical and warm at the same time.
You also have to have persistence, so much persistence, and a sense of personal responsibility. I really believe that my responsibility is to the author. If I take someone on, I have to sell their book. I have to. If it doesn’t sell and I’ve missed anything ... as far as I’m concerned, it’s my fault.
'I think I achieve more working four days as a mother than I would in five days without children.'
That’s a huge amount of pressure, and it is hard to keep that confined to the working week – do you have any advice for prioritising a work/life balance?
My life is fulfilling, and I’m not obsessed by work. If I had to give it up tomorrow for my children I would do it, but I would be very unhappy about it. So much of my sense of self comes from the work I do. I work four days a week and on those days I’m very seriously at work. On the Friday, honestly, I am still reachable but I’m very strict about weekends and holidays. I think I achieve more working four days as a mother than I would in five days without children; I’m not saying that being a working mother is amazing, but you have to juggle so much and be so efficient. I’ve become so bloody good at that. You have to do everything your children need you to do, and you can apply that mentality to work. It has made me kinder, it has made me a better person.
Publishing is not the highest paying job; no one is doing it to be rich. I’m lucky because what I earn is not crucial to the family, but that does also bring guilt. My husband is away from the children a lot, and I asked him why he doesn’t feel guilty, when I definitely do. He said ‘because I know I have to do it, and you know that you don’t have to’. This means that I really do have to get it right and do the very best I can. I hope this passion for it will show my children that loving your job is the best feeling ever, and inspire them later on.
'We all bluff, pretend to be a little better than we are in order to progress. But you need to know when to ask for help.'
Do you have any advice for someone who is just starting in their career?
My biggest tip is don’t be precious about what you have to do. I started doing such a boring job, inputting contracts into a system, endless photocopying, but I didn’t care because I was there. It’s also important – even if you don’t feel it – to try and put on the appearance of being engaged and engaging. If you hide behind your screen, you won’t get as far as a person who says ‘I’m here’. The more you project confidence, the more confident you feel because you are taken seriously. Then one day you will realise you really are confident.
As you progress, don’t be afraid to admit that you’re not sure what you’re doing. It feels embarrassing to say ‘I don’t understand this’, so you just try and do it anyway. About two years ago I had a really complicated royalties deal and I thought I don’t get it. So I went to the royalties department and asked for help – they didn’t think it was weird at all, and they broke it down so clearly. We all bluff, pretend to be a little better than we are in order to progress. But you need to know when to stop bluffing and ask for help.
Finally, can you tell us about one other woman working in publishing who inspires you?
I’m surrounded by amazing women, I find it very easy to work with them and they always go the extra mile. If I had to mention one it would be Sheila Crowley because she is a brilliant agent, always so willing and loves helping people. Her authors feel so cared for, she is never impatient – and look what she has achieved.
